PATFIELD: Alma… Appendix 7

To the Minnie PRESLAND descendants: This presentation is to show how you can mutually cooperate in verifying our previously unknown g-grandfather. At the end of this presentation I ask with details: "NOW: …how can you help?" I hope that you will.

Please read on using the following information including the below table which shows how closely each of you are related to me.

PRESLAND DNA Matches with Philip STRONG, descendant of Alice Maud ROSE, Minnie's twin sister.
# MinnIe ROSE Descendant Where tested via Minnies's child Child's
B-D		 Descendant's DNA cM
in order		 Descendant's DNA % DNA suggested relationship Persons in linked tree
1 Kim TOMKINS AncestryCom Ivy PRESLAND 1910-1988 112 2 2nd cousin 1X removed 9
2 Abel SCRIVEN AncestryCom Ivy PRESLAND 1910-1988 63 1 2nd cousin 2X removed -
3 Lesley TOMKINS managed by jacko100349 AncestryCom Ivy PRESLAND 1910-1988 43 1 2nd cousin 1X removed 3,462
4 digijewels28 AncestryCom May Elizabeth Jane PRESLAND 1904-1948 42 1 2nd cousin 2X removed 19
5 K Scriven AncestryCom Ivy PRESLAND 1910-1988 39 1 3rd cousin 2X removed -
6 aimee mckenzie AncestryCom Alfred John PRESLAND 1900-1979 21 1 2nd cousin 3X removed 19
7 Katie Williams AncestryCom Edna Grace (Girlie) PRESLAND 1915-1989 16 1 distant cousin 3,676 private

How does Minnie fit in? Your g-grandmother was Minnie ROSE, the younger of illegitimate twins. The other twin was my g-grandmother Alice Maud ROSE. Their mother was Dora ROSE. See the birth certificate below:

NSW-Transcript BIRTH 1878 (Murrin ): Alice Maud ROSE. *Reg# 1878/20013.* Date of birth: 16 Jan 1878. * Birth place: Orindinna. *Name: Alice Maud ROSE - elder of twins, illegitimate. *Father's name: NOT LISTED.* Father’s occupation, age and birthplace: NOT LISTED. *Date of marriage, place, previous issue: ALL NOT LISTED. * Mother's Maiden name: Dora ROSE. * Mother’s age: 18. * Mother’s birthplace: Orindinna. * Informant: Mother. * *Accoucheur Nurse / and/or witness: Mrs Dora ROSE. * Registered: 18 Feb 1878, Paterson. * Comments: Minnie ROSE- Younger of twins. * TRANSCRIPTION BY JOY MURRIN.

Note the father was not named! A little over one year later on 30 May 1879, 22 year old Thomas SOPER married 20 year old Dora ROSE at Gresford

NSW-Transcript Marriage 1879: Thomas SOPER & Dora ROSE * Reg# 1879/4443. *Date and Place of Marriage: May 30th 1879, Gresford. *Names and surnames of parties: Thomas SOPER & Dora ROSE *Conjugal status: Bachelor; Spinster. *Birthplace: Lostock N.S Wales; Orinauma (sic) N.S Wales. *Usual occupation: Farmer; Farmer’s daughter. *Age: —; —. *Usual place of residence: Gresford; Gresford. *Father's name, mother's name and maiden surname: William SOPER, Mary Ann HIGGINS; Leonard ROSE, Dora MARQUET. *Father's occupation: Farmer; Farmer. *Married at Gresford *According to the rites of the Church of England. *This marriage was solemnised between us: Thomas SOPER X his mark & Dora ROSE Witness to this mark Frederick BIDNER. *In the presence of us: Faldeen Marquet, Matilda Rose, Frederick Bidner *By me: F.W. Addams Officiating Minister.

Dora ROSE's twin daughters Alice Maud and Minnie were fostered in Thomas SOPER's family, but never adopted. This was evident when Alice married a little over 2 months after her mother's death on 17 Jan 1899 as Alice Maud ROSE, also known as Alice Maud SOPER, in the "House of Samuel PATFIELD" at Paterson. Similarly, a few months later, Minnie married as Minnie ROSE on 7 Jun 1899 to the "boy next door" Alfred PRESLAND Junior at the "Residence of Thomas SOPER", Lennoxton Vacy. When Dora died in 1898 at Lennoxton Vacy, the Coroner did not include the twins amongst Dora's children. When Thomas died in 1937, his son Edward SOPER likewise did not include the twins amongst Thomas' children.

Who was father of the twins? My mother passed on the story that it was one of the LINDEMANs... which was disproved by DNA tests.

This search was now for a young man who (i) lived in or visited Gresford at the time of Dora's conception of twins about 16 Apr 1877, (ii) Name unknown, (iii) transmitted a fair amount of DNA to his descendants which could reveal his descendant as my second cousin. Edward MAHER matched these criteria. See the table below. Also see a full discussion of Edward MAHER here.

MAHER DNA Matches with Philip STRONG, descendant of Alice Maud ROSE, Minnie's twin sister. Alice Maud and Minnie are Edward MAHER's daughters?
# Edward MAHER Descendant Where tested via E.MAHER's child Child's B-D Descendant's DNA cM
in order		 Descendant's DNA % DNA suggested relationship
1 diduever (Managed by cathiesherwood1) AncestryCom Mona Elizabeth 1903-1967 165 2 2nd cousin
2 Bryan Maher MyHeritage Matthew Jersey 1891-1970 158.4 2.2 2nd cousin 1X removed
3 David Heuston AncestryCom Mona Elizabeth 1903-1967 125 2 2nd cousin 1X removed
4 Alexander Heuston AncestryCom Mona Elizabeth 1903-1967 115 2 2nd cousin 1X removed
5 Christine Wild AncestryCom James Glendon 1885-1966 99 1 3rd cousin
6 June Robinson AncestryCom Gladys Helena 1899-1990 74 1 3rd cousin
7 Jodie Rapp AncestryCom Gladys Helena 1899-1990 44 1 3rd cousin 1X removed
8 Kingtancestors AncestryCom James Glendon 1885-1966 33 1 3rd cousin 2X removed
9 Sharon Feeney AncestryCom Florence Anne 1881-1957 12 1 3rd cousin 2X removed

 

Another backcheck of my MAHER matches with my PRESLAND matches. I wrote to each of the MAHER descendants identified by their DNA match, asking them to search the 7 PRESLAND descendant names amongst their personal DNA matches. diduevever kindly searched each of these names. Her results are below:

DNA Matches with diduever, descendant of Edward MAHER. Back check to confirm Minnie ROSE is Edward MAHER's daughter? Thanks diduever.
# Minnie ROSE Descendant Where tested via MinnIe ROSE's child Child's B-D Descendant's DNA cM
in order		 Descendant's DNA % DNA suggested relationship
1 Lesley TOMKINS managed by jacko100349 AncestryCom Ivy PRESLAND 1910-1988 37 - 4th cousin 3,462
2 Kim TOMKINS AncestryCom Ivy PRESLAND 1910-1988 26 - 4th cousin 9

 

NOW: …how can you help?

1) Please go to the opening screen on your own personal AncestryCom account.
2) Click on “DNA” at the top of your screen.
3) Click on “Matches” in the pull-down menu.
4) Click on “Search” on the top of your matches on the Right side.
5) A search box comes up on the Right side of your screen.The top space has the heading “Match name” telling you to “enter first or last name username”.
6) Now separately enter in the searchbox each of the names in my above MAHER table from the column with the heading “Edward Maher descendant” which are: diduever, Bryan Maher, David Heuston, Alexander Heuston, Christine Wild, June Robinson, Jodie Rapp, Kingtancestors, Sharon Feeney Note: these people are descendants of your probable g-g-g-grandfather. Each time click “search”.
Each time that name will come up, showing the relationship to you, on the maternal or paternal side of your family, and the length and percentage of DNA you share. Each time clear the search and repeat the procedure with the next name.

Please let me know how you go. My email link is at the bottom of this page.

All the best,
Philip Strong